rhythmaning (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
rhythmaning) wrote2006-12-03 12:36 pm
rhythmaning) wrote2006-12-03 12:36 pm
Labour and Scottish Independence
Last week was the Scottish Labour Party’s autumn conference – they took over the port of Oban for the weekend. Several big guns from London turned up, including Tony Bliar and Gordon Brown.
I saw some of Gordon Brown’s speech on tv – just by chance (I was channel hopping) – and I thought he came across rather well: he seemed very relaxed – the speech was portrayed as a conversation with Jack McConnell, Scotland’s First Minister, and they were both seated on comfortable looking armchairs (it is always possible that this wasn’t Brown’s keynote speech – the pictures on the BBC website show him looking rather more formal). It did occur to me that I could vote for this man – something I have never felt for Blair.
Both Brown and Blair spent much time in Oban talking about the threat from Scottish nationalism – the real possibility that the Scottish Nationalist Party might be the largest party in the Scottish Parliament after next May’s election, and independence is clearly on their agenda. (It must be said that whilst they may be the largest party, they are not likely to be able to form a government, since neither Labour nor the LibDems sound like they would countenance a coalition with the SNP – at least not if independence were to be an outcome.)
John Reid – a Scottish terrier and MP for Airdrie and Shotts Constituency (which is in Scotland) who is also the Home Secretary (who has limited responsibility for Scotland – those matters have been devolved* to the Scottish Parliament in Holyrood) – has also been making speeches in Oban about the dangers of Scottish independence and the potential break up of the United Kingdom - largely since independence would be a boon for terrorists (as if English ports have security to keep terrorists out if they wanted to enter England; and that much of the apparent terrorist threat stems from British nationals who are here already).
I find all this anti-SNP posturing very interesting: it indicates to me that Labour is running scared of the SNP. The fuss top level Labour politicians are making is actually raising the SNP profile, and giving them credibility.
As Brian Walden pointed out on Radio 4 this morning, one reason that Labour is scared of independence is that without the Labour MPs delivered to Westminster by the Scottish electorate, it would be difficult if not impossible for Labour to gain a majority of MPs, and hence they would lose power.
Apparently, majorities of both the English and the Scottish electorates favour independence - so if the SNP did gain power in Scotland, independence would be likely (and with the blessing of the English!).
And by Labour highlighting the threat, they are playing into the SNP’s hands.
*Instead of “devolved”, I wrote “deloved”. Which kind of amused me.
I saw some of Gordon Brown’s speech on tv – just by chance (I was channel hopping) – and I thought he came across rather well: he seemed very relaxed – the speech was portrayed as a conversation with Jack McConnell, Scotland’s First Minister, and they were both seated on comfortable looking armchairs (it is always possible that this wasn’t Brown’s keynote speech – the pictures on the BBC website show him looking rather more formal). It did occur to me that I could vote for this man – something I have never felt for Blair.
Both Brown and Blair spent much time in Oban talking about the threat from Scottish nationalism – the real possibility that the Scottish Nationalist Party might be the largest party in the Scottish Parliament after next May’s election, and independence is clearly on their agenda. (It must be said that whilst they may be the largest party, they are not likely to be able to form a government, since neither Labour nor the LibDems sound like they would countenance a coalition with the SNP – at least not if independence were to be an outcome.)
John Reid – a Scottish terrier and MP for Airdrie and Shotts Constituency (which is in Scotland) who is also the Home Secretary (who has limited responsibility for Scotland – those matters have been devolved* to the Scottish Parliament in Holyrood) – has also been making speeches in Oban about the dangers of Scottish independence and the potential break up of the United Kingdom - largely since independence would be a boon for terrorists (as if English ports have security to keep terrorists out if they wanted to enter England; and that much of the apparent terrorist threat stems from British nationals who are here already).
I find all this anti-SNP posturing very interesting: it indicates to me that Labour is running scared of the SNP. The fuss top level Labour politicians are making is actually raising the SNP profile, and giving them credibility.
As Brian Walden pointed out on Radio 4 this morning, one reason that Labour is scared of independence is that without the Labour MPs delivered to Westminster by the Scottish electorate, it would be difficult if not impossible for Labour to gain a majority of MPs, and hence they would lose power.
Apparently, majorities of both the English and the Scottish electorates favour independence - so if the SNP did gain power in Scotland, independence would be likely (and with the blessing of the English!).
And by Labour highlighting the threat, they are playing into the SNP’s hands.
*Instead of “devolved”, I wrote “deloved”. Which kind of amused me.
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But of course, not only would England lose John Reid; they'd also lose Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling, Douglas Alexander, and Des Browne from the Cabinet.
Perhaps we (the Scottish electorate) could swap John Reid for someone for someone we actually want...
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Still don't have a moment, but then when will I ever?
Scottish Independence is one of those emotional decisions things that isn't subject to a rational analysis - you either believe in it or don't. Once you've picked a side, you can start picking arguments.
One of mine, although not the original impetus, was the situation throughout the 80's and 90's when Scotland voted repeatedly Labour and got Thatcher. It didn't take long to realise that the Scottish government would always be decided by the English, and that if we wanted a govenment that favoured, say, no tuition fees and government sponsored personal care for the elderly over, say, tax breaks for private health care and education for them what could afford it, then it might be a good idea to have our own Parliament.
Labour's problem is that every success of the Parliament makes the case for independence stronger. And, largely due to Labour, it has been a qualified success.
For what it's worth, I'm sure Labour would be the natural party of government in an independent Scotland. I'm also interested in seeing how the party would handle that - a party founded on International Socialism shouldn't have a problem with having international memberships.
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I completely hold with your views about Scotland and Thatcher - that was when I started believing in proportional representation, since my vote was wasted (I was a student in Edinburgh in the early eighties).
I think there would be a deep irony if the SNP managed to push through independence - only for Labour to regain control at the next elections!
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I think the Tories would do very well in an independent Scotland too - the Nationalists, once they'd got what they wanted, would fragment very quickly (for every person who acclaims their positive stance on immagration, there's another who'll mutter darkly about Tories in Tartan).
Former Yugoslavia is an example I hadn't thought of. I'd probably go for the Czech republic first, or Ireland, or that other ex-English colony: what do they call it now? The USA?